Penguins, Pandas, & Algos, Oh My!

by Daniel on May 8, 2012

in SEO Tips and Articles

Recovering from a Panda or Penguin attack (something more prevalent in the online realm than offline realm):

I’m not going to tell you anything about recovering from a Panda or Penguin update that hasn’t already been written, but some people (up to 27 fans/readers now) want to hear it straight from the horse’s a**, err…. mouth so here goes…

 

If your site is hit with an over-optimization penalty, de-optimize it, or even better, RE-optimize it.

One thing good webmasters do, especially authority bloggers…is they curate/tweak/update their old content about once a year, maybe even more frequently than that, but I know I’d never do it more than once a year.

HISTORY is written by the victors

Revisionist History means never having to say you’re sorry, or that you’re wrong

REVISing your older content AND your inbound links is a method of revisionist history that can be used to offset any over-optimization penalties that might be affecting your sites right now.

So,  the last few Algorithm updates have tried to offset “gaming of the system” via seo and link building methods, but in order to do so penalties for getting certain types of inbound linking behavior had to get put into place (this makes negative seo easier).

Many penalties experienced in the last few years were just link-loss penalties, meaning… if/when profile links LOST value, they lost some power, or a lot of power, and if your inbound portfolio was replete with and overloaded with high percentage of the one kind of backlink recently devalued, then you lost a ton of link juice and rankings, which could then be regained by focusing efforts elsewhere on different types of links acquisition.

So then it was popular to use blog networks again, with some being better than others, with some lasting longer than others, but even private ones, like truly private SELF-OWNED private networks were getting de-indexed.  If/when self-owned private networks are getting indexed, then it’s not just a link type devaluation type of algorithm change, but more of a witch hunt seeking “Google-gaming networks”.

Historically, blog networks have been outed over and over again, but it’s been the quick fix that allowed people to attain “shortcut rankings” and allowed them to game the system to the point whereby their sites can make money, then they can add in higher quality links due to re-investment of site proceeds into smarter, longer-lasting link building methods and strategies.

Before, during or after the blog networks getting hit was the other witch hunt; the one for home page backlinks services.   These worked well, and worked so well that there was specific attention given to them in the algorithm updates, as far as I can tell.

The footprint on HPBLs wasn’t XX # of OBLS per page, well, that might have been the easiest way to determine if a site was part of a HPBLs network (pretty easy for Google tell it’s spiders to look for sites PR2 or above, with over 15 OBLS on front page, site size under 20 pages, and with ZERO OBLs on inner pages of site, and put them into a class of their own for manual review)

A year ago it was profiles links, then HPBLs and blog networks, but this time around it’s quite different and it could spell disaster for Google unless they fix their stuff.

Nowadays, they’re targeting their version of unnatural linking via over use of anchor text and unnatural amounts of DoFollow versus NoFollow in sites’ inbound link portfolios.  A DoFollow link from PRWEB.com’s website using anchor text is deemed as un-natural linking behavior according to Google and Google Webmaster Tools. W..T..F.. huh?

So where are we at today?

Negative SEO is a very real possibility, I can can only imagine that Google is willing to sacrifice long-term searchers’ experience for longer term viability as a search engine by eliminating or crushing “the little guy” who doesn’t have his/her own business, is an affiliate site/shop and not a Brand, per se…

Google has repeatedly hit small sites, thin sites, thin affiliate sites, weak content sites and the end game is the seo realm has been that authority sites, AKA Brands, end up winning and being treated favorably.

The things some of these “favored” sites have: branding, traffic, natural linking, editorial, organic links, and activity and in and of themselves, they are products…

If Since negative is such a real possibility, that leaves Authority Brands as untouchable, and impervious to negative seo, but this was/is too much of a wide swatch that was cut here, too many babies got thrown out with the bathwater by overly favoring brands, and over-penalizing link building done the way Google said to do it in years past.

Example: Get Editorial links, they said

But what if you got editorial links with anchor text, and all 10 of your editorial links were using same anchor text?

Well, This hardly ever happens with REAL editorial, natural links  (maybe that’s the whole point to the over-anchor penalty?, makes perfect sense to me) so that’s a bad example, but they have in the past suggested swapping links with related sites and getting links form related sites, but if you did what came naturally and inserted keywords to let people know what your site was about, then you’d be getting penalized today for over use of anchor text, and for un-natural link building.

Recovery options-

Revisionist history, alter your on-site cross-linking and inter-linking to reduce uniform anchor text usage.

Revisionist history- tweak/curate your old content, the content that’s probably sustaining your site with long tail traffic while your main keywords and phrases bottomed out in serps.

Revisionist linking- go edit, or try to edit..,. your existing links.  ask for link removal or modification to not be to “anchor-text-y”

Build a new site and go whitehat au naturale and compare its performance to site(s) you’re trying to revive.

**MR members>  read Interview with Dave M.  on unique recovery options..

{ 39 comments… read them below or add one }

Paul May 8, 2012 at 3:05 pm

I’ve got about 90% of my old rankings back (for keywords with any value anyway) using a combination of 2 of your tips on here…takes about 2 hours work and 3 days waiting from start to finish. Not going to give the whole game away but enough to add that it’s way easier to “de-optimize” a brand new domain than one that has been kicked into touch by Google ;)

I really hope that they get around to re-balancing what they’ve done with this update because as a Google user I’m beginning to dislike the search results I get back. So much so I’ve set my default search to duckduckgo.com for now.

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Backlink Booster May 8, 2012 at 4:33 pm

Another great post Dan…I love reading your stuff!

Based on conversations I’ve been having with industry players, we all agree that Google is way overstepping its bounds here. If Google truly penalizes sites for IBLs then that will open up the possibility of Negative SEO actually working. This will absolutely destroy both the rankings that Google returns, and the trust people have in those rankings.

And the fact that Google is sending out those “bad link notices” via Webmaster Tools and enlisting the help of webmasters to “police” backlinks just shows that Google has absolutely no way of reliably determining who is building what links to what sites. As a result, Google is walking on very thin ice with this algo change.

We are all hoping (guessing) this is a short-lived scare tactic on Google’s part, and we are awaiting a “correction” from Google on its algo changes. If not, it will definitely be the Wild West all over again…complete “lawlessness” with people getting their sites to the top of SERPs by bringing other sites down instead of working to bring their site up.

We’ll see how this all shakes out, but in the short-term it appears Google is getting what it wanted…to put fear and doubt into the SEO industry. We are launching a major test to see the true impact of these perceived algo changes, and I’ll share the results with you as soon as they come in.

All the Best,

Tom

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Steve Sharp May 8, 2012 at 4:41 pm

Thanks for the information. Not sure if I want to start taking down all my links but maybe ad more content without the blind links. Also I guess using SEOPressor may not be the way to go now either. Seems like I just got all the sites skyrocketing to the top when they roll out something new. I thought I was doing all the right stuff and 90% of my sites suffered. I’m not sure about IM automator anymore either and wonder if social adr, social monkey are still good. Back to Bangladesh for more manual backlinks while I retrain myself.

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Daniel May 8, 2012 at 5:08 pm

Yea, agreed. I dropped about 30k into a niche site project and relied on an seopressor-like plugin to help my dedicated niche site writer optimize all the posts since she is a great writer and I didn’t want her too focused on the on-page optimization until after articles were ready for publication. G didn’t reward the site for its top level content nor “perfect” optimization… so I’m not a huge fan of relying on tools to “perfect” my on-page…

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Andy May 8, 2012 at 5:05 pm

My site wasn’t hit terribly hard for most of the major keywords that pull in generic traffic but it was absolutely battered for the long tail inner pages which I used to dominate results and which drew the pother half of my traffic.
4 year old domain – all UNIQUE content – not kicked the ass out of keyword stuffing or anything like that. It has more content per post (way more) than all of my competitors (typically under 200 words compared to my 400) good set of links (cant think the link building is the problem though as the biog keywords are fine.
Just found most of my blog posts have been binned….!
Looked at a couple of long tail results today – one of them, the first 5 results are different pages from one website ( less than a year old) – one of those pages doesn’t have any content .- it is just a URL of a photo for another page, the title of the photos being close to the long tail key phrase. Then 3 pages from another site, then a couple of Youtube vids.
There is something seriously wrong with the long tail results in my niche right now!! Surely they are going to have to seriously rethink this update?

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Daniel May 8, 2012 at 5:16 pm

Sorry to hear this, it’s just another case of baby out with bathwater, and sacrificing search quality for some other ulterior longer term motive.

There’s plenty of white-hat-only webmasters complaining about what’s happening with their websites, too. I see some marketing people who aren’t really SEO types saying tsk tsk see I told you, get real links form real sites, and don’t do X, or Y or Z… But they’re clueless, truly… I could tank their sites in a heartbeat if I had something to prove…

G algo is broken in a lot of places, but not entirely broken. I can’t imagine they’d keep it this way for much longer to bolster PPC revenue, like some conspiracy theorist are saying… PPC revenue is only going to be gathered in for as long as the search engine is of top quality with its results.

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Andy May 8, 2012 at 5:44 pm

I stuck out a blog post this afternoon and usually after a few hours minutes or so – couple of days at the most it would be picked up and be above the fold for the title. Just checked now and it is nowhere to be seen :(

HOWEVER!!! I have a blogspot site for this website as well which I set up ages ago and have never touched other than sending loads of naff links to it for a while when I first set it up.

This site takes a snippet from my post and then links back to my site and the original post with one specific anchor text – it does this every time I post – this blogspot crappy site is ranking number 1!!!

Should I be thinking about ditching this site or what? I mean on one hand maybe with it ranking I might actually get some traffic from it, on the other hand the site is basic and terrible looking and is beating my main site in the rankings . I want my main site where that one is…

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Daniel May 8, 2012 at 6:06 pm

It’s just a mess, really. I’ve been pointing LinxBoss links at RSS Scraper SERPs, and getting my own content outranked by Dupe-content-scraping, low, low low quality sites.

In other words, I posted something on Site R, 10 sites are scraping my RSS feeds and posting snippets and linking back to my site at end of snippet, and the sites I pointed LinxBoss links to are outranking the FULL content, original content-publisher (site R)

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Andy May 8, 2012 at 6:12 pm

I just deleted that blogspot account. I have a theory that when I added the rel-author tag google saw that I owned my site and also the blogspot site and since the blogspot site had an anchor text link back to every post has somehow penalised my main site. I will post so more on the main site tomorrow and see how it now plays out with no blogspot snippet post and link back.

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viddi May 8, 2012 at 5:49 pm

I have a strong feeling that their freshness classifier needs to be re-adjusted. It can be carrying more weight than it should. Although, I know of a site that has not added a bit of new content for years and is still ranking very well. So nothing is written in stone yet.

One thing is for certain, that social signals are being taken into consideration more now than ever before.

I also believe one thing Google looks at a lot is how many times someone actually types in a site’s url into the address bar or search field. That can give it valuable info for how popular a site really is. It can do this by utilizing android, chrome plus etc…

I don’t see too many people mentioning this, but if I were writing a search engine, it would be included.

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Daniel May 8, 2012 at 6:08 pm

Hey Viddi, whenever you hear me or anyone else mention “naked links” we’re referring to straight-up domain urls. This is the “branding factor” they’re looking for, and part of the reason why anchor text usage, or over-usage was getting “algo” attention.

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Andy May 8, 2012 at 6:17 pm

Freshness classifier I can see the point of but then again, for “evergreen” info freshness is far less of a useful thing so far as quality is concerned therefore shouldn’t carry much weight at all. If it continues being a big factor then I guess its time to start re-writing and re-hashing old posts to stay at the top…

Dan – what service would you suggest for a site where I want 20 to 30 backlinks to each post, auto generated with 3 or 4 targeted anchors and the rest being random? As it is something I want to implement on my blog to push the posts but I dont think I need to kick the ass out of it – just a little push. I dont mind having to set this after posting so long as it doesnt take forever.

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viddi May 8, 2012 at 7:37 pm

I see this as more of a scare than a permanent ranking system. I refuse to believe that hubpages and the like are going to continue ranking over really great sites that used to take their place. Eventually, every day users will catch on and spread the news via word of mouth.

Interesting how a lot of this mess occurred after they went public. I’ve seen it before, a company gets too big and seeks to please the money whores.

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Daniel May 8, 2012 at 7:48 pm

Makes you wonder about what this article says then huh?

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viddi May 8, 2012 at 9:32 pm

That was a fantastic read! Thank you so much for the link and a different way to think about what the future might hold.

Interesting that the link you provided is natural and anchored as “this article”. Now, I wonder how much more valuable it is than say an anchored KW link?

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Daniel May 8, 2012 at 9:44 pm

Well, that’s a perfect example of a high quality link, as far as intentions of link giving are concerned.. Editorial and not trying to rank them for Google under in 5 years” as a keyphrase. And sort of related based on your prior comment about new companies getting into “sophmoric” slumps.

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Briggstown May 8, 2012 at 10:17 pm

In my niche, I actually see some sites ranking with profiles and comment spam. I don’t know what to think about that.

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viddi May 8, 2012 at 10:40 pm

Dude, it’s just to piss you off man, wait it out.
G knows what they are doing to get you sick and tired of SEO and into PPC.

What I do is build new sites and rank those while patiently waiting and getting work done on the hit sites.

The ultimate goal is to one day get them both to rank and make even more on Google’s tab.

Take that G, I will sell on Ebay or Craigslist before paying for PPC-Big Smile :)

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SEO Content Network May 11, 2012 at 1:53 am

I look at this like a game. Each tweak of Google’s algorithm shows sites that Google really trusts. Right now its Wikipedia, Amazon, and YouTube (there own). We also know that Matt Cutts and many Google employees read Reddit, so we know those are trusted sites. Logically, this means that you should be creating/getting links at those places.

The next thing to remember is that the point of SEO is to get traffic. For example, we know that YouTube is actually a type of search engine (some say the top 3 search engines in the world). One thing that is known, but not well known is that YouTube relies on some older search engines algorithms. This means that we can optimize each of our YouTube channel and each individual video. We do this by ensuring we have written at least one paragraph in the YouTube video’s review section. We also know that we can point tons of blog post links linking to the video URL. We also know that if we embedding the video into the blog posts that also is another “link” for that particular video. If you do this, you can get your video ranked for the target keyword in YouTube. This will provide more traffic to your site/money page.

If you did the same to the websites Facebook site, you will also be able to generate more traffic by ranking your Facebook fan page for the same keywords.

Our most successful customers send links to their:

YouTube Channel(s)
Individual YouTube Videos
Yahoo Ask(s)
Press Releases (PrWeb)
Facebook
Twitter
Amazon account

And they point links at those sites first to generate traffic from those pages; secondly because it has a huge positive effect on their SEO keyword rankings in Google.

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Garish Wasil May 12, 2012 at 2:45 pm

Nice Post Daniel, I am new to your blog and I really liked your posts.

For the Penguin Update, almost all are saying that the web 2.0 sites are ranking exceptionally well after this update (And yes, everyone know this after the “Make Money Online” Fail that happened during the update, leading an empty blogspot blog to rank #1 for that most desired term). Recently Jonathan leger (Creator of TBS) also revealed some exciting stuff on his forum jlforums.com/search-engine-optimization/kill-the-penguin-piggyback-off-of-domains-with-lots-of-authority/ and blog http://www.jonathanleger.com/ranking-in-google-after-penguin/ and It (to some extent) made this notion clear.

What’s your pick on this ?

As you too mentioned that Google is favoring authority sites more now than ever (and hey, its google’s decision, we can’t complain about it) , wouldn’t that mean people/marketers going towards (spamming) web 2.0 sites more ? And as the web 2.0 sites are generally free to build, any one can create and spam the shit of them (they are doing now too). Whereas, the .com’s and other TLDs cost a few bucks that had always set a limit of spam that marketers do. Wouldn’t this move of google towards increasing Search usefulness ultimately lead to Search shitfulness, lol

Ohh, sorry for making this long comment :p

Oops, I should be spamming those web 2 sites right now, what I am doing here ? Bye ;)

Regards,
Garish Wasil

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Daniel May 12, 2012 at 4:09 pm

Hey good questions and comment.

1- Build a new site and link it the same way and that will work, for now
2- Capitalize on these temporarily favored web entities and rank for stuff, for now
3- get links form trusted sites, in a legit manual review proof manner and rank well for now and probably more permanently

I can’t imagine Google would allow its search quality to be this bad for much longer. All I can think is, they’re trying to rebuild the web almost… if making new sites works, then maybe they’re ranking crap in its serps until there’s enough new sites with no old linking history to hold it back… and then they start improving their search by ranking all these new sites.

TOO bad latest algo made negative seo so much more possible/easy to do.

Buy a scrapebox blast, or xrumer blast, or a fiverr negative seo campaign/order, apply it your own Squidoo Lenses and Hub Pages and see how long it takes to get those yanked down, then think again on whether or not you want to rely on web 2.0 entities as your main ranking entities.

You can build new entities and consider them placeholder SERPs, while you build an “untouchable” site….

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Briggstown May 13, 2012 at 8:25 pm

I have a lot of links to my inner pages. Would it help me if I changed the URL of some of my pages and did a 301 redirect. I know anchor text from 301 redirects are treated differently.

Also I noticed with SEO Content Network they say each blog gets a lot of traffic from Web 2.0s. Is there a service that sends you traffic from web 2.0s? I think it would help me if I could get more traffic coming into certain pages.

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William May 22, 2012 at 4:13 pm

Hey Dan,

Do press releases still work? If so, do you know of a good service that writes and distributes? Thanks!

William

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Briggstown May 27, 2012 at 6:24 pm

This is a mixed service that includes press releases along with a few wiki’s and tweets per month. It is a monthly service and the content is written for you, but probably NOT related to your niche. They don’t tell you where these Press Releases are posted so I don’t know quite yet.

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-special-offers-forum/590834-rank-your-site-after-penguin-get-backlinks-actually-stick-full-money-back-guarantee.html

Mass Media SEO was recommended by some guru (I can’t remember who). Very cheap service. You must provide your own press release.

http://www.massmediaseo.com

I had a problem with them because they wanted me to provide my real name, address and phone number on the Press Releases. If you have a business setup this shouldn’t be a problem for you.

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Mark May 30, 2012 at 3:05 pm

William,

Unfortunately, a lot depends on what you’re trying to accomplish. For an actual ecommerce property, they’re great and paying the $199 for PRWeb to distribute makes sense. We’ve had our releases end up in some of the top US newspapers via that route.

I do schedule a release for my rental sites, when they get rented, which also tends to bring in some quality links.

Affiliate sites might not work as well, unless you could do a top 10 list or similar.

As for writing, my only advice there is that after I have done it both ways, writing them doesn’t take much time and is probably the only time you can quote yourself without your wife and friends making fun of you over it

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Alicia May 23, 2012 at 12:39 am

Hi

Have been hit by the penguin update.

Have noticed we have lots of exact name anchors on articles posted on ezine articles and go articles.

As we can edit these is it ok to change all on the same day for instance or will doing this also get us flagged for being unatural?

Many Thanks

Alicia

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Jon May 25, 2012 at 8:51 am

Doesn’t look like anyone is going to answer your question, William , so I will tackle it. I recently used a service called Press Release Monkey and I was pleasantly surprised. They write a good quality press release and do all the submission work for you as well. They communicate with you through the entire process and are very professional. Ok, I don’t want to sound like a commercial since I’m not affiliated with them in anyway, but you can check them out if you want. Another one people like is webwire. Hope this helps.

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William May 27, 2012 at 11:35 am

Thanks Jon!

I’ll definitely give it a shot.

William

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Briggstown May 29, 2012 at 9:58 pm

Does doing DMCA takedowns help at all with Panda? I must have 500 or so sites copying my content.

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Daniel June 7, 2012 at 8:57 am

Fake DMCA requests are becoming a normal part of negative seo nowadays. Author attribution is one way to protect original content but then you’re married to Google.

DMCAs should work, DO work even with scraper sites, but if they’re not outranking your main content and giving you free backlinks then no harm done there. Scraper sites are diluting the web and they don’t give powerful links since those sites are usually crap, but you could consider them free indexing tools for your content if you’re getting link backs from the scrapers. If there’s no source attribution by them or link backs then by all means do the DMCAs if you see harm being done.

One way to protect yourself from scrapers or content copier sis to have a site whose newly published content gets indexed within minutes, and once your content is indexed before others you can throw a few links at them even social links… to keep your content deemed as original server of this unique (at the time) content…

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SEOContentNetwork.com May 29, 2012 at 10:21 pm

Remember SCN syndicates 99% of our customers content. And since your a customer before you do anything please send us the list of over 500 sites so we can ensure you don’t hurt any of our sites and your investment.

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Briggstown June 3, 2012 at 10:58 pm

I’m thinking a good Press Release campaign, with brandname and bare anchors could be a solution to penguin. The only problem is I can’t manage to find a cheap/good source of these kinds of links. And I’m not sure the more expensive services will keep links intact.

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joe June 4, 2012 at 4:36 pm

when is the next update on marketers relief?

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Andy June 4, 2012 at 4:39 pm

Might be a good idea for Dan to set up an email alert for MR so we know when new content is posted?
And a forum wouldn’t go amiss :)

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joe June 5, 2012 at 10:39 am

i second that

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Daniel June 7, 2012 at 8:48 am

Hi Joe, Andy everyone…

MR is driving me nuts TBH… Taking me a lot of time to do interviews and work within confines of the ghetto script I’m using for the membership/content.

I want to keep my ear to the ground on the seo landscape but running MR is turning me into an explainer of things versus being a tester/practitioner of things, I made myself a new job when my real job is to be testing and delivering info you can trust…

I realize that when a membership has a monthly fee that new content is needed, expected… so now the service I provide is a JOB for me, one that I enjoy doing but it comes with some drawbacks…

Do you want investment advice from someone who makes most of their money selling investment courses or from someone who makes most of their money from practicing what they preach, ie. from their own investment strategies?

I want to continue to deliver value and I’m trying to find a happy medium, should it exist, for continued deliverance of good value.

MR won’t go away, but you should want me in the trenches more often than I’m recording interviews… at least that’s what I would want from someone, something I look to for value, service, info etc…

Apologies for sounding off here, I’m transparent type of person and those are my thoughts on this…

I’m back form vacation and catching up on things, and I will send an email when new stuff is posted

Thanks for your trust and patience! :)

Dan

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Sean Saunders June 5, 2012 at 12:41 pm

I third that! Feels like there hasn’t been an update in a while and I’m eager for more!

While I did the work, I have to admit Dan was a big part of getting me to a $100k business model last year. Following his advice and software/services recommendations and putting in the work, I was able to prosper and amaze my family with my income.

However, with googles obsession with white & black animals lately, I’ve been hit harder than ever before and have been, so far anyways, reduced to less than 1/5th of what my business once was — even though I diversified like a mother…

Anyways, I’m eager for dan to start rolling out the new “secrets” to beating google through MR. I figure $15 a month to keep up to date on everything he knows is well worth it.

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Andy W June 5, 2012 at 12:45 pm

Shit, thats a big drop!
Still working on my sites – total mess with all this new places/local/G+ rubbish. All my reviews on my local page have gone and I am not ranking anywhere for local – no idea why :(
They were all real reviews as well. Dont know whats happened to it. I can really see what people get pissed off and go blackhat…

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Daniel June 7, 2012 at 4:26 pm

Doing an interview right now with Joshua. :)

Will post it as is tonight and email all ye hungry beasts! :)

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