I was reading a forum thread the other day about spam linking and profile linking and once again there was this arrogant, hypocritical, know-it-all windbag sounding authoritative and mis-leading the masses there.
Basically what he said was this:
Spam linking will soon become devalued, especially profiles linking, since unattended forums or blogs tends to get over run by spam very quickly, thus reducing their overall SEO quality, and if the overall SEO quality of a web entity is reduced, then so won’t the value of those links, in general and on a site specific basis.
But this is theory, therefore he’s not wrong, yet….
Despite being someone who’d I ‘d dearly love to practice some of my Aikido/BJJ/Muay Thai/Kickboxing reflexes on, he does raise some valid points about the long term value of Spam Linking, in that it might not be forever.
At some point in the discussion he claimed that mega outbound DoFolllow links on a url will make that url’s Page Rank drop because it’s linking out to spam-ish sites and will eventually drop its PR and the links there will lose their effectiveness.
But this isn’t true yet either, hence all those blog finder tools find plenty of high PR blog urls to comment on, still, and those urls have already been hit pretty hard with comments already, so how are they maintaining their PR still after all this time and after all those OBLS (outbound links)?
So does SPAM linking work?
Yes, absolutely it does however here’s where Mr. Windbag who used-to-sell-profile-links memberships might be right, in theory only so far….
Look at what’s happened in the past, especially with Social Bookmarking sites and other Social Media Platforms… Once they become super-popular they changed from DoFollow to NoFollow to avoid being over run by SPAM and put up some countermeasures to try and crack down on SPAM, but despite all that bookmarking links whether they be Dofollow or NoFollow just aren’t that effective anymore.
… and the same holds true for reciprocal links, they work to a certain extent but aren’t that valuable anymore…
So the historical precedent has been that when links from QUALITY authority sites are becoming too easy to come by, then they get devalued (social links), they count for less even if Dofollow…
What’s Google telling us they value these days, or in recent past?
Site activity (discussion) , LSI stuff, inbound links, on page optimization, links from relevant sites, naturally acquired links.
However none of those things by themselves get you ranked, but SPAM linking in and of itself when done properly can get you ranked….
What’s Google saying they’re devaluing or already have devalued?
Blog comments, for one, but no evidence saying this is the case.
Social bookmarking - either those sites got contacted to switch to NoFollow or their links just don’t matter to Google anymore, but still do to other search engines.
Links from bad neighborhoods - Yes, they’ve done this but not in the way you’d think since Guestbook spam linking is almost the lowest of the low when it comes to spam linking and those links are practically worthless, but reside on sites still maintaining their good standing in the SERPs, just not giving out valuable links via guest book link spam…is the point here.
It used to be that the simple maxim of ” if a link is hard to come by, then it’s valuable” held a lot of truth to it…
Another maxim, “low number of Quality links can do more for you than massive spam linking” is still probably true, BUT…. those links are harder to come by and when you’re doing SEO and link building you have to realize that ROI is important.
So what’s the freaking point of all my bloviation and what can you take away from this meandering post?
SEO is an ever changing landscape, different things work at different times and it does you no good whatsoever to listen to the pro-SEOs pontificating about what they were told at SEO conventions or from reading Cutts’ blog.
Do you wanna know what works RIGHT NOW, or what might not work in the future?
SPAM linking works well right now, and always has…. just ask the Viagra guys, they’re not doing directory submissions and submitting things to Digg.
- They’re exploring each and every new easily available link source they can.
- They know the footprints that are under exploited,
- They know about link wheels, tiered linking and layered linking (which Mr. Windbag probably discounts as a soon-to-be-discovered-and-discounted linking “schemes”).
Don’t let self-important pontificating windbags (like me) strike fear into you when discussing what MIGHT happen, instead listen to self-important pontificating windbags (like me) who reveal case studies of THEIR own, and don’t rely on selectively hand-picked 3d party resources that back up their arguments wherever and whenever it’s appropriate (for their argument), while discounting other case studies and opinions.
What any good SEO Advisor would tell you, and I am stating as well.
Get a variety of link types from a variety of sources and practice solid, if not perfect on page optimization (which also means having unique content).
Since I’m not a writer for SEO Moz or other mostly white hat places, I don’t have to be married to any one method or philosophy about SEO. As mentioned earlier in this post, I have taken some martial arts classes over the last 20 years and one of them was Jeet Kune Do, the way of no way…and the point there is to do whatever works to accomplish your goals an don’t listen to anything anyone tells you that hasn’t been definitely proven yet, and even if so… prove it to yourself first, since your REAL knowledge is knowledge gained from personal experience not hearsay from blogs and forums.
Last note: Yes, maybe someday, somewhere over the rainbow the profiles links will get devalued, but if you know what you’re doing then those increased SERPs from SPAM linking will allow you to earn extra income from those sites’ higher rankings and then you can divest some of those earnings into doing more high quality stuff that’s long-lasting by nature.
So once again, do what works right now forget about us windbags and save some of your increased earnings to put towards some old-school quality links like press-releases, or hitting the major article directories or whatever…
Sorry if this post isn’t properly organized, was really just a rant, but the last paragraph here is really all you need to focus on, (low level massive linking now, invest in high quality links later = long term results and good ROI from the get-go)
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{ 11 comments… read them below or add one }
Hi I am a member of seobook. And there the general consensus is that only way to truly make you blog bulletproof is to have unique content around it, both as guest post etc etc…The fact remains that PR most likely will be taken over by another factor shortly.
One of my site being listed in DMOZ gained 8 positions to number 1. Though the actual link is on PR0 so it really goes to show the perceived link juice that pr simply is not measuring.
Matt Cutts has said the rule you should go by is “would you do this if Google wasn’t around”. If you build links with that in mind, I don’t think you will care if they are spam or “high” end links.
If Google wasn’t around would I do article marketing? Yes, because I would want my well written articles in front of as many people as I could so I could get them to my website.
If Google wasn’t around would I find blogs and forums and post comments? Yes, I would build up a relationship on these blogs and forums so people would go to my website.
If Google wasn’t around would I create profiles on forums? Yes, I would create as many forum accounts I could and do my best to post my website to each of them, and use it as an advertising tool.
If Google wasn’t around would I put my website on Directories. Yes, they act like mini search engines and people do search them for services. I know I get contacts and sales from Directories.
If Google wasn’t around would I do social bookmarks? Yes, because social bookmarks show others what is new and exciting, and I would want as many people talking about me through social bookmarks, and I would want as many people to read tons of positive social bookmarks about my site. Again, getting the attention of potential clients would be my goal.
If Google wasn’t around would I do press releases? Yes, because I would want my company positive information in front of as many people as people, and press releases go to both online website and news organizations as well as real world news organizations. Press Releases can be very helpful to any online marketing strategy, even if there was no Google.
If Google wasn’t around would I do reciprocal linking? No, why would I want a link on someone elses website if there was no Algorithm to manipulate. In fact, I don’t do this now, because I want to make sure my actions aren’t to manipulate any algorithm, and that the only reason someone would want to do reciprocal linking.
If Google wasn’t around would I do tons of content creation on my site? Yes and no, I would do more blog posts in my blog, but I wouldn’t continually putting new content on the rest of the site. Right now people are creating new content for their sales pages/normal websites mainly to manipulate the algorithm. In Google’s quest to get “new content” I don’t think they are following their own rule. New content is important, but how many big SEO companies and businesses are now Spamming On-Page Content.
Those are my opinions on “spam links” vs. “good links”.
Link spamming works.
When it doesn’t, the SEO guys will find something else that does.
Hooray!
Ahh, (my) young SEO Padawan speaks again, thanks for deigning to comment here
Pay especial attention to last paragraph of this post, it’s a good SEO link building strategy in a nutshell
Whether anything works or doesn’t the best way to know is, like you mentioned, rely on testing and actual experience, your own and anyone else’s that is reliable, before even considering anyone’s theories.
Hello David,
There are people everywhere that stick for all the rules they can find but there are other who bend the rules to suit there needs.
Link spamming in profiles, forums, guestbooks is just an other type of linkbuilding.
Don’t worry about badlink neighbors because as long as you don’t link to them is okay, even Google said that you can’t control who links to you so they won’t penalize you because of those kind of links (imagine the chaos).
One thing that can prompt you to recognize link spamming as a viable source of links is the massive amount of tools dedicated to this kind of procedure, not to mention companies that practice it.
And if it works now, as you said, you can make money and invest in proper (yeah right, like there is a proper way of link building-> even the word itself is not agreeable to google, SE you shouldn’t build links you should gain links) linkbuilding!
Alex, Dave’s not here man!
But you’re right on everything else, there’s no proper way, just suggested methods and practices, all dependent upon your philosophies and business model. If you were site flipping then you don’t really care if rankings and links drop and disappear, as long as you propped things up temporarily, or if you had clients who wanted ot see numbers, then this is a good way, too although links that stick are helpful, too
Hi Dan, First off I really like this post, its something I have put a lot of thought and testing into over the past 8 months or so.
The problem that google has is, it is a SE that is entirely reliant on backlinks. You can rank a page with zero related content for any term you want, aslong as you have enough of the right type of backlinks. They may release veiled statements suggesting that they have de-valued a certain type of link which IMers then jump on and then that veiled suggestion proliferates through the IM World and suddenly becomes gospel truth, but the fact is there are only so many types of backlinks you can actually get and if Google honestly de-valued all the types of links that IMers spam out to, then as a search engine it would simply stop working.
However, I do think google have found ways to combat spammers (to a certain degree) and thats through moitoring the amount of traffic a site is generating, to the amount of backlinks they have pointing at it, so if there is no actual traffic, but theres a 1000 new links appearing to link to it each month, then clearly that is not ‘natural’ and that site owner is trying to game the system and so they ‘sandbag’ that site.
Which in my opinion, is why its so much easier to rank an aged high PR domain than a new one, because the older site has a history of actual traffic and therefore in googles eyes the links are ‘more natural’ (as daft a concept, a natural link is).
I personally feel this is why some people find their new domains ‘sandbagged’ no matter how many quality links they create where as others dont.
Google is the new boogie man.
If you don’t eat your peas the boogie man will come get you.
If you build spammy links Google will come get you.
If you’re scared get a dog.
Algos for Google should change. I don’t think a website should outrank mine just cause they had the time to post on 4000 blogs.
Thanks for the great article Dan. Yes perhaps someday Google will devalue many types of backlinks. What we can do is to make some preparations.